177 Self Storage and Real Estate Funds During the Pandemic – Passive Accredited Investor Show
Join the Carolina Capital team LIVE every Thursday at 1:00 PM Eastern for the Passive Accredited Investor Show.
This week, Jacob Vanderslice, Principle of VanWest Partners, joins Bill Fairman & Wendy Sweet to discuss if now is a good time to invest in Real Estate!
VanWest Partners is a Denver-based real estate investment firm focusing on the acquisition and management of self-storage centers and other opportunistic real estate throughout the United States.
VanWest’s success is driven by a commitment to delivering an expertly executed, adaptable strategy with an institutional investment approach.
0:01 – Introduction: Is now a great time to invest in real estate? (Commercial real estate in the form of Self-storage)
1:17 – Wednesday with Wendy: https://calendly.com/wendysweet/wednesdays-with-wendy
3:05 – Today’s guest: Jacob Vanderslice of VanWest Partners
3:47 – How do you find the good value add and are you dealing with lower capital rates in today’s market?
7:42 – Who is Jacob Vanderslice?
8:41 – Particular areas VanWest Partners invest in
9:38 – South Carolina is not very investor-friendly when it comes to property taxes.
10:13 – What criteria are you looking for when you invest in a certain project?
11:02 – Jacob Vanderslice’s Fund
14:17 – Are you doing more projects in a fund?
15:21 – The best strategy is to be diversified as much as possible
16:01 – Are you still raising capital on your other fund?
17:26 – Capital is the easiest part (Money is everywhere)
18:14 – Nothing goes exactly like you think it will
19:31 – Things you should look at when you invest in syndications or funds
21:51 – Jonathan explains the “IRR model”
23:53 – Jacob’s drill down in IRR – “ The choice between IRR or cash flow. Which one would you rather have in your pocket?”
Carolina Capital is a hard money lender serving the needs of the “Real Estate Investor” and the “Small Builder” borrower who is striving to build wealth and generate income for themselves and their families. We offer “hard money rehab loans” and “Ground-up Construction Loans” for investors only in NC, SC, GA, VA, and TN (some areas of FL, as well).
As part of our business practices, we also serve as consultants for investors guiding them to network with other investors and educating them in locating and structuring transactions. Rarely, if ever, will you find a hard money lender willing to invest in your success like Carolina Capital Management.
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Bill Fairman (00:02):
If you’ve not done a live show before, it’s pretty interesting that we’re smiling, waiting for us to get the little red light that says live. And it’s funny how your face just kinda those that fake smile thing.
Wendy Sweet (00:15):
Yours is bank munch for real.
Bill Fairman (00:16):
Bill Fairman (00:20):
So here’s the question.
Wendy Sweet (00:24):
Bill Fairman (00:24):
Is it is now a good time to invest in real estate?
Wendy Sweet (00:27):
Jonathan Davis (00:27):
Let’s find out.
Bill Fairman (00:28):
Right after this.
Bill Fairman (00:49):
Thank you so much for joining us on the Passive Accredited Investor Show. We are Carolina Capital Management we’re lenders in the Southeast or real estate investors. If you were interested in borrowing money, go to CarolinaHardMoney.com and click on the apply now tab, if you’re a passive investor looking for passive returns, click on the accredited investor tab, don’t forget to like share subscribe, hit the bell. And don’t forget to sign up with Wednesdays with Wendy.
Wendy Sweet (01:20):
Bill Fairman (01:22):
Look like kind of Lord of the Rings.
Jonathan Davis (01:22):
I was gonna say much like that ink droppint into the water, your mind will be blown
Bill Fairman (01:44):
By the way. We have a question and comment section on the right-hand side of your screen or underneath, depending on the platform that you’re viewing us from. So don’t hesitate to ask or make crappy comments.
Wendy Sweet (02:02):
You’re doing much better on this show, Bill. You got your blood moving. He remembered all the words, aren’t you impressed?
Wendy Sweet (02:09):
I know your face is less red. Today is your day.
Bill Fairman (02:15):
Yeah. Yesterday I got to the office and I thought to myself, did I leave my very expensive Yeti cup on the roof of my car? Did I leave it in the kitchen?
Wendy Sweet (02:24):
Where did you find it?
Bill Fairman (02:25):
It was in the kitchen.
Wendy Sweet (02:27):
Oh, good for you.
Bill Fairman (02:27):
Because I have left it on the roof of the car. And that’s why it’s got a few battles scars. So my apologies to David Phelps and group for the dents on their Freedom Founders cup.
Wendy Sweet (02:42):
That’s a good cup.
Bill Fairman (02:42):
So we’re constantly getting pounded with this is now a good time to invest in real estate.
Jonathan Davis (02:50):
And then specifically is now a good time to invest into,
Bill Fairman (02:55):
Commercial real estate in the form of self storage, or maybe even multifamily, but we’re going to concentrate on self storage because we have a rockstar in the self storage industry. Jacob Vanderclice.
Wendy Sweet (03:13):
Bill Fairman (03:13):
Welcome to the show, my friend.
Jacob Vanderslice (03:15):
You guys are, you’re too kind. Good morning and good afternoon.
Bill Fairman (03:20):
Okay. So just out of curiosity, how much square footage are you guys controlling right now? Do you know right off bat?
Jacob Vanderslice (03:28):
Word about 1,000,007.
Wendy Sweet (03:32):
Wow. That’s a lot boxes.
Jacob Vanderslice (03:34):
It’s a lot of boxes. Yeah. A lot of metal boxes all around.
Wendy Sweet (03:39):
Empty one bottles. People save the strangest stuff.
Jonathan Davis (03:44):
They really do.
Bill Fairman (03:44):
I mean, you understand the industry completely in all sectors and you know, it was a big, the biggest issue is the rise of property values and the prices that you’re having to pay for for properties. What are you doing to number one, find the good value, add stuff. And are you just having to deal with a little bit lower cap rates right now?
Jacob Vanderslice (04:18):
Well, I think the challenge of deal flow is systemic across all the asset classes that we feel we all focus on, whether it’s single family homes, multi-family industrial self storage. There is a lot of capital out there right now that wants to be allocated to hard assets. You know, the stock market’s getting very long in the tooth. We’re seeing, um, we’re seeing very much a pivoting of capital from, from traditional, publicly traded equities into private real estate vehicles. And with that pivot, we’re seeing a lot of cap rate compression and there, and we’re having challenges with deal flow. Most of the deals that we source are through relationships, broker relationships, direct to seller relationships. That being said, though, we’re still paying more than we used to a couple of years ago. And that’s again, that’s universal. One of the challenges that we’re seeing specifically in the deal flow front is there is an historically low cost of capital out there.
Jacob Vanderslice (05:17):
And people are paying what we believe are very compressed cap rates because their yield requirements has gone down. It’s do you want to make a zero? Or do you wanna make a four? And they say, well, we want to make it four. We’ve got to get money out. So what we’re thinking that we’re seeing in a number of the deals that we’re missing by millions of dollars are buyers are underwriting to what may or may not be untenably compressed cap rates when it comes time to sell. So as you guys know, the model will tell you whatever you want it to. And if you’re buying a deal on you want to be conservative, and you say that deal is going to sell the seven cap in five years time, and you make an offer based on those assumptions, you may not get it. Somebody else is going to come in and say, we’re going to say this deal is going to sell at a five cap in five years. So they can think and pay exponentially more than the person buying the deal at a seven cap in five years. So that is one of the many reasons why we’re missing deals out there. We’re still getting product. We’re getting inventory. That makes sense that we believe has good risk adjusted returns, but we’re certainly not finding as much opportunity as we’d like,
Bill Fairman (06:21):
Jonathan and I had a local REIA subgroup meeting last night. And we’re hearing that from, you know, the people in that room, the exact same thing that they are constantly getting outbid and then they’re also, they’re coming with cash. They’re not looking for, to have any kind of financing. And that gets tough when you’re trying to get into the commercial self storage arena. It’s hard to come up with that much cash, but you’re right. We were having that discussion exactly last night, that there’s a lot of capital looking for a home
Jonathan Davis (07:01):
And compressed timeframes to close. I mean, you know, you usually see people like in the commercial space, like, you know, 60, 90 day, you know, due diligence. I mean, we’re seeing more and more people closing ad or inside of 30 days.
Bill Fairman (07:15):
You can’t do your proper due diligence in that shorter period of time. They’re just taking it basically no inspections so to speak.
Jacob Vanderslice (07:26):
Yeah, we were doing a lot of 60, 30 contracts and now we’re doing more like 45, 15 just to hope to be competitive. Sometimes 30, 30, but that’s not a lot of time to properly evaluate a $15 million acquisition. For example
Wendy Sweet (07:44):
Jacob, I think it would be a good thing. We just kind of jumped into a conversation there’s people on here that may not know who you are.
Bill Fairman (07:50):
Oh come on. everybody knows who Jacob is.
Wendy Sweet (07:51):
We know who you are. Talk a little bit about your company, what you guys do and you know, areas you’re investing in.
Jacob Vanderslice (08:01):
Yeah. We focused on a lot of the food groups in real estate over the years. We’ve done a lot of single family, residential. We’ve done adaptive reuse retail. And the last five years, we’ve mainly focused on self storage. And the first round of storage deals we did were single assets indications. And we pivoted to a fund structure. We did our first fund in June of 19 and close that back, close that out at the end of 2020. And we launched our new fund, which is underway now. We’re about halfway deployed. We’ve got about $30 million in acquisitions this month in September and hopefully a few more in Q4, but we’re primarily a self-storage investors and operators.
Wendy Sweet (08:39):
Awesome. What area of the country are you all over?
Jacob Vanderslice (08:43):
Well, we’ve got deals in our backyard at Denver. We haven’t bought anything here for awhile because the market just hasn’t made sense to buy. Mainly outside of Denver, we’re in the Midwest and south Southeast. So a lot of stuff in the Florida panhandle and North Carolina, I’ve got properties in Michigan, Columbus, Ohio, Illinois, Tennessee. So we like the Midwestern Southeast because we found that those are a good blend of current yield, but with also a component of capital appreciation.
Wendy Sweet (09:11):
Bill Fairman (09:12):
Yeah. I’m thinking that the Midwest, you have a few more expenses that you have to deal with with snow removal and that type of thing.
Jacob Vanderslice (09:21):
Yeah, it’s a big one, but another big one, especially in the Midwest are property taxes. That’s a huge number. And if you are not accruing properly for a worst-case scenario, property tax bill, your deal is going to suffer when it gets reassessed. So big tax bills in the Midwest, for sure.
Bill Fairman (09:39):
Well, surprisingly enough, South Carolina is not very investor friendly when it comes to property taxes as well. They’re very friendly to the owner occupant of a residential property, but I was surprised to find out how unfriendly they are in investor property, especially when we just got our recent tax bill for this building.
Jonathan Davis (10:08):
Yeah. It’s nice.
Bill Fairman (10:12):
So what size, let’s put it this way. Number of units, when you have a criteria that you’re looking for, how many doors or what kind of square footage are you looking for in each project?
Jacob Vanderslice (10:30):
Yeah. We look at it more through the lens of net rentable square footage versus unit count cause you to count can kind of vary based on the sub market. If you get a higher size average unit mix, you know, your unit counts going to go down and vice versa. Our sweet spot is generally 45 to 50,000 net rentable square feet. We’ll occasionally go lower than that. If we’re buying a property as part of the portfolio, and we can achieve some geographic concentration, but we’re not targeting one-off deals and new markets that are below 45,000 feet.
Wendy Sweet (11:01):
I’m here limited. I’m sorry. I know you’re limited as to what you can really say about your fund, but I think a lot of people would be interested. You said you started a fund, then you closed it out in 2020. Yeah. And now you’ve got a new one. So if you know, investors are interested in investing in your fund, talk a little bit about what it’s like, if you know why it has a drop dead date on it and why you’re doing a new one. W how does that work?
Jacob Vanderslice (11:32):
Yeah, our funds are very focused on income first and then capital appreciation. Second, it comes a lot easier to quantify and predict than cap rates, you know, 5, 6, 7 years down the road. We have a fairly standard waterfall structure. We have an 8% accumulating preferred return, and we curate our portfolio in a manner where we can distribute that quarterly out of the gates from acquisition after 8%, every excess distribution goes to return investor capital accounts. So in short investors are receiving 100% of the distributions. The fund makes until preferred return is satisfied until their money’s back. And after those two things occur. The split with investors is between 70, 30 to 80 20 based on how much money they invest.
Wendy Sweet (12:14):
Wow. And are you refinancing it at that point?
Jacob Vanderslice (12:18):
We are not refinancing as part of our model. We certainly could, but we’re getting some very attractive debt terms that don’t really call for a refi. Um, our last round of debt was at 3.8%, 10 year fixed full term interest only. So then you’ll perspective. I mean, there’s different philosophies on amortization versus interest only, you know, emiratisation is good and that you’re burning off principal on the loan, but amortization is not distributable cashflow. The only way to monetize that amortization is to either refinance or sell. So that’s why we found the interest only vehicle, a little more attractive. So unless interest rates go down a lot, which is almost impossible to say or imagine if they get much more today, we don’t need to refi. And if we’d stayed the same, we create some value. We would consider doing that to distribute some capital back to investors but that’s not a liquidity event that we’re underwriting to.
Wendy Sweet (13:14):
Bill Fairman (13:15):
So after that, that 10 year period, are you, is your exit from those properties a sale, or maybe at that point or refinance and,
Jacob Vanderslice (13:28):
Yeah we get a few options on the exit. Um, our primary objective is to return investor capital within reason as quickly as we can, and that’s not necessarily tied to in disposition of the asset base. So we’re underwriting to a staggered one-off sale beach property beginning on your six. Other scenarios might be a recap of the entire portfolio giving investors the option to step up and to do co at a tax-free basis or increase in basis or at liquidity event. Another option potentially is to sell the entire portfolio to a larger investor, like a private equity or institutional capital. So we’ve got a couple of different options on the exit side. And of course the refinances, you mentioned, Bill. But our plan is to hold these for awhile and enjoy the repeatable, durable income streams that self storage offers.
Wendy Sweet (14:18):
Are you putting more than one project fund or you doing a fund per project?
Jacob Vanderslice (14:26):
So our fund, you know, there’s obviously two types of deals out there on the capital raising side. There are single assets indications, which is one deal, one LLC, and there’s funds, which are identical to a syndication, but a fund is generally a collection of assets. And the reason we like the fund strategy a little bit more is the geographic and cashflow diversification that a multi-property portfolio offers versus one deal. So inevitably in a 10 property portfolio, two deals might be behind forecast six are on forecast and tour ahead, and they all kind of balance each other out. So our fund is a multi-property strategy. So far this year we’ve acquired nine self storage facilities, which represent about around $45 million in gross capitalization. We’ve got $30 million in acquisitions on deck for September, and then we’ve got a few, a few deals that we’re chasing for Q4. So by the time the fund closes we’ll have between 13 to 15 properties.
Bill Fairman (15:21):
Nice. Well, I mean that, that’s always the best strategy is to be diversified as possible. You’re diversified geographically, and then you’re diversified because you have obviously more than one property that’s involved. It’s no different than having somebody that has one rental property or five rental properties. If you’re doing single family homes, or if you’re making loans on one property versus 25 properties, you know, inside of a fund structure.
Jacob Vanderslice (15:51):
Bill Fairman (15:51):
It’s always the best way to go if you can have multiple assets.
Jonathan Davis (15:55):
Wendy Sweet (15:58):
Great deep dive into a fund. People don’t get to hear this.
Bill Fairman (15:59):
You still have, are you still raising capital on your, your second fund?
Jacob Vanderslice (16:06):
We are. We’re getting fairly full for our September allocation, but we’ve got room in Q4. So we’re pumped, we’re probably closed the fund out around $35 million. And, uh, end of September, we will deploy it about 28 million, 29. So another five, six or so ago for Q4. So we’ve got some bandwidth still, um, and it just kind of depends on capital raising and deal flow, both of which are never, as, you know, perfectly in balance
Wendy Sweet (16:36):
Feel your pain.
Jonathan Davis (16:36):
The pendulum we know, we know too well.
Jacob Vanderslice (16:40):
Yeah. Without, it’s too much money, not enough deals. And then the next day it’s too many deals and not enough money.
Jonathan Davis (16:46):
I remember I was telling our loan department before I went on vacation, you know, we were in the same thing. We were like, all right, if you have to fund just one deal, this is the one you fund. And then when I got back, it was like, we need to fund 20 deals. Where are we at? Like, it just, it swings that fast.
Wendy Sweet (17:08):
Got to take them all
Jacob Vanderslice (17:11):
Yeah. Couldn’t agree more.
Bill Fairman (17:13):
That’s been this business ever since I’ve been in it and it’s nothing new. It’s funny. It always works out.
Wendy Sweet (17:21):
Jacob Vanderslice (17:21):
Bill Fairman (17:21):
No matter what it always works out.
Jonathan Davis (17:26):
You know, capital was typically, I mean, people who first got in this, they think that is the hardest part. Capital is the easiest part.
Wendy Sweet (17:35):
Jonathan Davis (17:36):
I mean, it is mindset and opportunities. So those are the things that you have to, you know, take hold of. Capital’s always there.
Bill Fairman (17:45):
So if anybody needs to get in touch with you about getting into the fund, do we have the proper URL for them to,
Jacob Vanderslice (17:55):
Yeah. You do. The website’s great. And whether you want to work with us or not, it’s always fun to talk shop about real estate. If you want to bounce ideas off of us. LinkedIn’s a good place, Jacob Vanderslice, or you can email me it’s firstname.lastname@example.org.
Bill Fairman (18:09):
All right. Excellent.
Wendy Sweet (18:11):
Bill Fairman (18:11):
Well, I love your business model.
Wendy Sweet (18:15):
I do too.
Bill Fairman (18:15):
One of the things that I don’t like about the syndication is obviously it’s still one project. And the thing that you talked about earlier is trying to predict the value of the property at the liquidity event. At the end, when everything’s finished, if your return is heavily weighted on the end value, you have no way of knowing if that’s going to be the case or not. I mean, you might have that. Of course we can’t predict the black Swan events like we had with the pandemic, but that’s why I liked the income model on the front end.
Jonathan Davis (18:58):
Bill Fairman (19:00):
It’s just much more predictable.
Jonathan Davis (19:02):
Yeah, predictable. I see so many of these funds set up and it’s like, all right, for the first four years, you’re not going to get any income, but you’re going to make 30% on your money at year five. And it’s like, yeah, there’s a lot of things that are going to happen between now and year five.
Jacob Vanderslice (19:19):
One of our infinite infamous one-liners is our models are always wrong. They’re either wrong in the right direction or wrong in the wrong direction, but nothing goes exactly like you think it will. And for those of us listening, as you’re considering investing in private real estate vehicles, whether it’s a funder syndication, there’s a, there’s a couple of things you should look at. And one common term that kind of universally expresses the return profile of a syndication or a fond is something called IRR and IRR stands for Internal Rate of Return. And that’s basically a time-weighted calculation based on a series of cash flows. It’s almost like an annualized return on investment. And IRR can sometimes be massaged in ways that make a deal look better than it might actually be. So I’ll give you a quick example. So Bill, you give me a hundred thousand dollars a day and six months I give you back one 50, you made a $50,000 profit on a hundred.
Jacob Vanderslice (20:14):
You did in exactly six months. That’s a hundred percent IRR because you had a 1.5 multiple and half a year, right? That’s a good return. That’s a good multiple, so same example. Let’s say you give me a hundred thousand dollars today and tomorrow I give you back 101. So your IRR is 365%, which might seem like a great return, but you’re not happy because he only made a thousand bucks and you got your money back. So it’s folks look at different opportunities out there. Don’t just think about IRR. Also look at your total multiple on your invested capital. And by that, I mean, how much profit will you realize over the life of the vehicle as a percentage of the money you put into the vehicle, and when does that profit occur? So for example, on the multiple side, let’s say that we could or Bill or anybody could double your money in five years. So if you doubled your money in six years, that’s still a really good return. You’re happy whether you do a two X in five years or six years, but in the six year scenario, your IRR or your time-weighted return is going to be substantially less. So as you examine these different vehicles out there and try to balance that total multiple over the life of the opportunity against what is probably hopefully a healthy IRR, but also understand when those distribute distribution events happen. And to your point you made earlier if you’re looking at a deal that’s a 50% IRR, but 95% of that return is predicated on an event five years from now. That’s not a very safe assumption to make. So to try to look at opportunities through all those lenses and you might find yourself being a little more informed on various risk profiles.
Jonathan Davis (21:52):
So for all of you out there who like Excel, what Jake just said is if you take someone’s IRR model and then you use Excel and use the X IRR function, the X takes in the time into account. So then it quantifies that return based off the time exposure of the investment. So that’s when people send me proformas with IRR returns, I rerun them with an X IR we know with the dates of the allocation of the, of the capital coming in, and then it blends that with the timeframe. So that is, X IR that’s the function, the formula in Excel that you would want to use to do exactly what Jake just said.
Bill Fairman (22:35):
So in a future show, we’re going to have a webinar on how to set up your spreadsheet, what Jonathan says,
Wendy Sweet (22:44):
It wasn’t a bad idea. I always thought it was kind of funny, especially when we were doing a lot of one-off loans, you know, people would give us money to lend out for them out of their self directed IRA. And I was always amazed at the people that were really excited when it paid off in less than 30 days, you know, it’s a six month term and it’s plays off list. They’re all excited. And I’m thinking, don’t be excited. You’re you’re now you’re head of adult work to put it back out again. And the time that you’re using to be able to do that.
Jacob Vanderslice (23:13):
Yeah, you’ve got downtime on your money back in your bank account, and you have to find a new place to put it to work and take a new round of risk.
Wendy Sweet (23:24):
That’s exactly right.
Bill Fairman (23:24):
That initial, pleasure is, Hey, I got my money back and I made a little bit. Now, what do I do with it? To your point on making a thousand dollars a day, that would be great. And there’s nothing wrong with that, but you have to repeat it for 365 days for it to really make sense. And the likelihood that you’re going to get it reinvested every single day and get that thousand dollars is not very high.
Wendy Sweet (23:53):
We have a second on that Excel tutorials.
Jacob Vanderslice (23:56):
Not to drill down too much more on IRR, butI can’t depart the call without mentioning this. I discourage folks from just looking at IRR, look at deals in a manner where am I going to make a rational amount of profit over a rational amount of time, given the risk profile. And you shouldn’t invest in this deal over here because it’s an 18% IRR and not this deal because it’s a 15% IRR
Wendy Sweet (24:21):
That’s right. Not all about the algorithm.
Jonathan Davis (24:23):
Correct. Absolutely. Wise words.
Bill Fairman (24:28):
You’re right. You have a lot of people that are just chasing the best field. The other thing that they have to consider, and this is the most important, is who is the sponsor? Are these people you want to work with, do they have a track record? Are they chasing yield themselves or are they just wanting to, first and foremost, have a nice safe return of principal plus plus making some income?
Jonathan Davis (24:56):
Yeah. One of the things you show, like Jake said, you have 15% here. You know the deal, someone else has, you know, a similar or maybe a slightly different deal. And it’s 18. Your first response should always be like, Ooh, sounds dangerous, why 18? What’s going on now?
Jacob Vanderslice (25:14):
Yeah. I had an old rich guy asked me once. If I could put one thing in your pocket, would you want it to be IRR or cashflow?
Bill Fairman (25:24):
Jonathan Davis (25:24):
Yup. That’s good.
Wendy Sweet (25:25):
That’s a great question. All day long.
Bill Fairman (25:30):
Do the cashflow.
Jacob Vanderslice (25:30):
Wendy Sweet (25:30):
Bill Fairman (25:30):
Jake, thank you so much for, for joining us here.
Jacob Vanderslice (25:36):
Always a pleasure.
Bill Fairman (25:36):
You always provide wonderful,
Wendy Sweet (25:39):
Wendy Sweet (25:39):
Wonderful. You make us look smarter, thank you for coming.
Jacob Vanderslice (25:46):
Bill, every year I get less stupid.
Wendy Sweet (25:48):
That’s the goal, right?
Jacob Vanderslice (25:48):
Bill Fairman (25:52):
That’s funny. That’s actually true. So many battles scars. We smarten up.
Wendy Sweet (25:59):
Sometimes you get to a certain age and you start getting more stupid. I didn’t,
Jacob Vanderslice (26:04):
We don’t know what to do. We just know more things of what not to do.
Wendy Sweet (26:08):
That’s right. I’ve messed up there before. Oh yeah. I’ve messed up there before too
Bill Fairman (26:17):
Folks. Thank you so much for joining us on the, what is this? The Passive Investor, Oh man.
Jonathan Davis (26:26):
Wendy Sweet (26:26):
Passive aggressive show.
Bill Fairman (26:27):
I was doing so well, Jake. We are Carolina Capital Management. We are lenders in the Southeast for real estate investors. If you’re interested in borrowing money, go to CarolinaHardMoney.com and click on the apply now tab, if you’re a passive investor, looking for passive returns, click on the accredited investor tab. Also, if you’re a passive investor in your accredited check out Jake’s information, his email info is over there in the,
Wendy Sweet (26:55):
In the chatbox. And it’s also on the screen right there.
Bill Fairman (26:57):
Jeez. It’s almost over, I promise. It’s all there in the comment section and his URL. Don’t forget to like share subscribe, hit the bell and sign up for Wednesday with Wendy. Once again, folks. Thank you so much for joining us. We’ll see you next week.
Wendy Sweet (27:16):
Jacob Vanderslice (27:17):